Episode 92 – Healthy Bivocational Gospel Ministry

Cary Schmidt is joined by Andrew Browning to discuss the often-overlooked tension between faithfully explaining the Bible and helping people apply it meaningfully to their lives. They explore what it means to grow in gospel-shaped application—not just giving listeners a to-do list, but pointing them to the Person and work of Jesus as the true source of lasting transformation. Through honest reflections and practical strategies, they urge preachers to rely on the Holy Spirit, craft application that inspires rather than burdens, and guide people to live out their faith from a place of grace, not guilt.

In Part 2, Cary and Kurt continue their conversation on relational loss in ministry, this time focusing on gospel-shaped responses. Drawing from David’s experience with Saul, they discuss how to process betrayal, walk through grief, and move forward in faith. They encourage pastors and ministry leaders to respond with grace, forgive without expecting anything in return, and trust God’s sovereign work even in the midst of personal hurt. Find practical counsel, biblical insights, and hope for those navigating emotional pain from canceled friendships or ministry relationships.

Cary Schmidt and Kurt Skelly dive into the difficult experience of “getting ghosted” in gospel ministry, where friendships or ministry relationships abruptly end without closure or explanation. They explore both internal ghosting (within the church) and external ghosting (among ministry colleagues), highlighting the confusion, pain, and disillusionment that often follow. This episode encourages pastors and leaders to process the experience biblically, avoid bitterness, and lean into grace. Join us for part 2 where they will discuss how the gospel provides a framework for responding to ghosting in a Christlike manner.

Chris Anderson returns to the podcast as he and Cary discuss church planting and the newly launched Healthy Church Network. They emphasize the importance of collaboration, a robust doctrinal foundation, and unity while being deferential on non-essential issues. Whether you are a young pastor or church planter needing encouragement or an established church looking to engage in fruitful church planting efforts, this episode will be encouraging!

In this episode, Cary emphasizes the importance of surrendering our problems to Jesus by exploring the miracles and teachings in Galilee. Trust in His omnipotence, and follow His guidance through our problems. Jesus is always present, orchestrating outcomes for His glory, so persist in faith, knowing Jesus transforms scarcity into abundance and provides rest for the weary.

We’re back! Thanks for being patient as we’ve taken this break. Cary shares some updates to new resources currently available and then dives into a framework for teaching the gospel effectively!

In this conversation, Cary interviews guest Tommy Lee as he shares his journey and testimony, as well as his involvement in Resource Global, Wheaton College, and Together LA. They discuss the importance of addressing insecurities in leadership and dealing with pain, particularly in ministering to those in secular environments. Together they encourage leaders to embrace their strengths and rely on God’s strength.

In this conversation, Cary and guest Drew Dick discuss Drew’s book ‘Just Show Up: How Small Acts of Faithfulness Change Everything’. Drew shares his journey in Christian publishing and the importance of showing up and being present for others. He emphasizes the value of faithful obedience and the need to let go of perfectionism. They also explore topics such as navigating doubts, finding strength in the Psalms, the impact of the book ‘Steady Strength’ to Christian leadership, the importance of vulnerability and real friends in ministry, and the connection between nurturing a healthy soul and leading a healthy culture.

Cary concludes with five more lessons from senior pastoring.

Josue Ortiz and Cary continue their reflection on the first ten years of senior pastoring and what they have learned.

Josue Ortiz joins the podcast and asks Cary to reflect on the first ten years of senior pastoring and what he has learned.

Cary explores the ministry of the apostle Paul as he unpacks how low seasons can affect all of us. Hear this Biblical example of how to face low seasons and down times in gospel ministry.

Cary explores the ministry of the apostle Paul as he unpacks how low seasons can affect all of us. Hear this Biblical example of how to face low seasons and down times in gospel ministry.

Mike Lester (President of Veritas Baptist College) joins the conversation as he and Cary unpack how to set a healthy pace in ministry. Learn from their experience and strengthen your gospel ministry with a pace that is sustainable.

In this part 2, Cary and Andrew continue to characterize unhealthy, toxic leadership and what that can look like in contrast to healthy, gospel leadership!

In this new episode, Cary and Andrew characterize unhealthy, toxic leadership and what that can look like in contrast to healthy, gospel leadership!

Kurt Skelly returns to the podcast to discuss a timely new article from Dr. Don Sisk—Disagreement Without Disunity. Hear Dr. Sisk share why its so vital to have unity amongst gospel leaders.

*Note: The podcast numbering has been updated to better match the current number of episodes. The previous episode number is listed as 67.

How does the fear of man affect our decision making? We’ve seen plenty of seasons of contention and disunity, but most leaders desire unity with other leaders. How do we provide latitude to others to lead and release that fear in our own hearts? 

Note: The podcast numbering will be updated with the next episode to better match the current number of episodes. The next episode will be listed as 75. 

Morris Gleiser returns to the podcast to discuss five of the modern enemies in gospel ministry.

Dr. Jonathan Hoover continues the discussion by examining the differences between worry and anxiety, and how to renew your focus despite the troublesome thoughts that often show up.

Dr. Jonathan Hoover is back to discuss the limits of our human strength and how to manage our finiteness. We’ll learn from Elijah as we look at his journey and unpack some lessons on exhaustion.

Cary and Dana resume their discussion on marriage and ministry in part 2 of this special Q&A style episode!

We’re back! And for the first time on the podcast, Cary is joined by his wife Dana for this special Q&A style episode on marriage and ministry!

Ryan Thompson joins the podcast to discuss seven trips (plus a bonus) that every pastoral leader should be planning in their calendar. Maintain and grow in healthy gospel ministry by investing in your own personal health, family health, and ministry health.

Andrew Bunnell joins the podcast to examine how “ordinary” in gospel ministry is truly great. It’s not about the trap of attention, a platform, or followers. Give your heart to gospel ministry, and God will steward your influence.

The Psalms and the life of David give us an encouraging perspective on handling the dark seasons both personally and as leaders. Join Cary in this helpful study in Psalm 39.

Author and faithful church leader Brian Dodd joins the podcast as he and Cary discuss leadership and best practices in gospel ministry.

On this new episode, Cary interviews Ken Baker, church planter in Bronx, NY. Hear Ken’s story of personal and ministry valleys and how God has brought him through to the other side stronger and devoted to gospel ministry.

Cary and Andrew get together to discuss areas they are working on in ministry in this raw, informal episode!

Pastor Ryan Johnson joins the podcast to discuss pastoral transition and leading through change. Hear a portion of Ryan’s story as they uncover how the gospel provides discernment through the transitions.

Morris Gleiser returns to the podcast for a great conversation on biblical preaching! Topics include preparation & immersion into the text, structure & sequence, as well as some thoughts on delivery & style.

Cary and Andrew begin a new year with a conversation on a gospel-centered staff covenant. Listen as they unpack their leadership guidelines and expectations.

Josué Ortiz rejoins the podcast to dig into what it means to have a solid, robust gospel theology and how to grow in it. Is it systematic theology? Is it exegetical or biblical theology? Hint: all of the above and in the right balance.

On this episode, Cary and Andrew challenge us to develop a roadmap of discipleship for every new guest and follower of Jesus! Is it clear? How is it communicated? How long does it take for a guest to understand their next step?

Cary and Andrew discuss their top 5 best decisions they’ve made in ministry the last few years!

Andrew Browning and Cary Schmidt host an international edition of Leading in the Gospel with special guests Josue Ortiz and Kike Torres. These men pastor in Mexico and join the conversation to discuss gospel ministry and rest.

Jonathan Hoover returns to the podcast to weigh in on the challenges of burn out and how to cultivate health in gospel ministry.

Jonathan Hoover returns to the podcast to weigh in on the challenges of burn out and how to cultivate health in gospel ministry.

Chris Fabry, author and radio host, joins the podcast for a casual conversation around ministry and the gospel.

Mark Hoover joins the podcast to discuss how pastors face crisis and discouragement, and how to lead forward in the gospel.

Duston Moore is the pastor of Ravenswood Baptist Church in downtown Chicago. Ravenswood is a thriving, growing church though it didn’t always used to be that way. Cary and Duston unpack how the gospel informs our transitions and how we can lead through change.

Duston Moore is the pastor of Ravenswood Baptist Church in downtown Chicago. Ravenswood is a thriving, growing church though it didn’t always used to be that way. Cary and Duston unpack how the gospel informs our transitions and how we can lead through change.

Bob Lepine, the co-host of the “Family Life Today” radio program, joins the podcast to discuss the gospel and family life. If you feel the tension between ministry and family, listen and glean the wisdom of the decades of gospel and family ministry.

This informal interview took place on the back porch with Dr. Don Sisk who has served God for many decades. Together they recount the journey of God’s grace and leading in a life-long ministry that has truly had a remarkable global impact.

Cary, Andrew, and Kurt conclude their conversation on bad ministry experiences and how the Gospel navigates us forward from them.

In this episode, Cary and Andrew are joined by Kurt Skelly to continue their conversation on bad ministry experiences and how the Gospel redeems those circumstances. Don’t miss part 3 of this conversation as well!

In this episode, Cary and Andrew are joined by Kurt Skelly for a conversation on bad ministry experiences and how the Gospel redeems those circumstances. Don’t miss parts 2 and 3 of this conversation as well!

Cary shares the story behind his new release—Stop Trying: How to Receive Not Achieve Your Real Identity. Available January 7th from Moody Publishers

Author Ryan Lokkesmoe and Cary continue their discussion on how the gospel shapes leaders and the examples we find in the life of the Apostle Paul.

Pastor and author Ryan Lokkesmoe joins Cary to discuss how the gospel shapes leaders and the examples we find in the life of the Apostle Paul.

Cary shares the story behind his new release—Stop Trying: How to Receive Not Achieve Your Real Identity. Available January 7th from Moody Publishers

Cary shares how expository preaching shapes our view of God, our view of God’s story, and how it impacts our own life and the lives of our church family.

Pastor Chris Teis continues our conversation on unity in gospel ministry. Leaders must model unity before they can teach it. Chris and Cary also discuss how the leader can respond to disunity.

Pastor Chris Teis shares a challenge on unity in Christian service and in contrast to our culture’s confusion, we can have unity. Uniformity does not equal unity. Unity is from the Spirit and draws people to Christ.

Cary and Andrew are joined by Kurt Skelly as they discuss insecurity and how the gospel solves insecurity in leadership.

Pastor Bryan Samms joins the podcast for an insightful discussion on church growth and how the gospel shapes our view of growth.

Ron Edmondson joins Cary to discuss seven hard paradigms he learned in becoming an effective leader.

Cary and Andrew return to begin a new conversation about the topic of gospel-centeredness and what it means to us.

Cary and Andrew return to begin a new conversation about the topic of gospel-centeredness and what it means to us.

Cary and Andrew return to begin a new conversation about the topic of gospel-centeredness and what it means to us.

Morris Gleiser returns to the podcast to share the story of his recent cancer journey. He challenges us to follow Jesus through suffering and shares encouraging verses and thoughts.

Troy Shoemaker serves as the president of Pensacola Christian College and joins us for this next episode as we discuss The Shaping of a Gospel Leader based on Exodus 18 and the life of Moses.

Professor, Counsellor and Pastor Jonathan Hoover joins us for episode 24 in this series to discuss emotional health in gospel ministry. In this three-part series, part three covers the biblical principles for emotional health in gospel ministry.

Professor, Counsellor and Pastor Jonathan Hoover joins us for episode 23 in this series to discuss emotional health in gospel ministry. In this three-part series, part two covers the warning signs for a pastor as well as the challenges and causes for pastoral emotion health struggles.

Professor, Counsellor and Pastor Jonathan Hoover joins us for episode 22 to discuss emotional health in gospel ministry. In this three-part series, we begin by covering the challenges and warning signs of emotional health as a pastor.

Pastor Paul Chappell joins us for episode 21 as we discuss how to protect your family in gospel ministry. We can all get caught up in the euphoria of success or the desire for acceptance and get off balance in our work and family life.

Pastor Johnny Hunt joins us for episode 20 as we discuss how the gospel shapes our identity, roles and goals as a leader. Some questions we ask: Why do you choose to invest in younger leaders? What does the term Gospel-shaped leadership mean to you? What are some of your best decisions?

Sam Horn joins us for this episode of the podcast. Sam is the Executive Vice President of Bob Jones University and has served in various pastoral and academic positions throughout his ministry. Each season has its specific challenges and specific fruit.

Cary and Andrew continue the conversation discussing how the gospel has been set free at Emmanuel and New Hope through different changes that have taken place over the last few years.

Cary and Andrew continue the conversation discussing how the gospel has been set free at Emmanuel and New Hope through different changes that have taken place over the last few years.

Cary discusses how the gospel shapes authority in leadership with special guest Jeff Redlin.

Amy Simpson joins us for episode 15 to discuss her recent article “When Moral Boundaries Become Incubators for Sin”.

Cary and Andrew continue their discussion on the fears that hold us back as they unpack a biblical view of success and fear.

What are the fears that hold us back?
Cary and Andrew unpack a biblical view of success, the topic of fear, and how the Gospel shapes our success and fear.

Resentment is never a godly response, but there are some things that leaders can do that bring about resentment in those that follow them.

Dr. David Wells joins us for part two of “Faithful to the Gospel” on Leading in the Gospel! Dr. Wells has written numerous books and is a retired professor from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, where he also served as academic dean at the Charlotte campus. He has been a distinguished lecturer on modern Christianity and the recipient of a major grant from the Pew Charitable Trust. He has written extensively on theology and culture’s impact on the church.

Dr. David Wells joins us for Episode 10 of Leading in the Gospel! Dr. Wells has written numerous books and is a retired professor from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, where he also served as academic dean at the Charlotte campus. He has been a distinguished lecturer on modern Christianity and the recipient of a major grant from the Pew Charitable Trust. He has written extensively on theology and the culture’s impact on the church.

Evangelist Morris Gleiser joins us for Episode 9 of the Leading in the Gospel podcast! He has served in youth ministry and evangelism for over 40 years.

Pastor Tim Rasmussen has served on college faculties, church staffs, and as the senior pastor of Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park, California, for twelve years.

Cary and Andrew discuss the blessings of collaboration: Synergistic Relationships; Mentorship of Pastors; Staff Mentoring and Resource Sharing; Emphasis on Greater Kingdom Impact